Beware of bubble genius …

Hard to believe it’s nearly 10 years since Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac collapsed and were taken over by Uncle Sam.

Time flies when you’re getting rich.

It’s been a GREAT run for residential real estate investors … especially apartment investors.  Free money in the punch bowl can really juice up a profit party.

But after 10 years of equity happening to real estate bull market riders … it’s a good time to think about where we are, where things are headed, and what to do next.

And looking forward comes in two parts:  external and internal.

The external is the world of variables outside your control.  Like driving down the freeway, there are lots of other drivers whose actions affect YOUR safety and progress.

But the key to your success isn’t what’s going externally. It’s how YOU navigate those external circumstances … based on what’s going on inside of you.

It’s about financial and emotional intelligence.

Because what you think and believe affects what you do … and what YOU do has the greatest impact on the results YOU experience.

One of the biggest dangers of riding a wave of easy money into gobs of equity is thinking you’re an investing genius.

We know … because it’s happened to us … and we see it happen all the time.

It’s much harder to be humble, curious, teachable and innovative when you already think you’re smart.

It’s important to know the difference between luck and skill.

True financial genius is being able to make money when everything externally is falling apart … like a pro race car driver deftly navigating a multi-car melee at 180 miles an hour.

That’s REAL skill.  Anyone can rocket down an open road.

Fannie Mae’s chief economist Doug Duncan told the audience at Future of Money and Wealth he thinks recession is likely in the not-too-distant future.

And Doug made those comments after reminding everyone his last year’s Summit predictions were all essentially spot on.

So based on both his pedigree and track record, Doug’s qualified to have an opinion.  And we’re listening.

“The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining.” 
– John F. Kennedy

The sun’s been shining on real estate investors for ten years now.  Maybe you’re one of the many who’ve made tons of money.  We hope that trend continues.

But as our friend Brad “The Apartment King” Sumrok reminds us … it’s time to approach today’s market with a little more sobriety.

Money and margins are both getting tighter.

This means paying better attention to detail, increasing your financial education, and being careful not to rationalize marginal investments to bet on positive externals.

In other words, beware of being a bubble market genius … and thinking what worked in a bull market will work when things change.

Better to work on sharpening your skills at finding and creating value.

Of course, real estate is FULL of pockets of opportunity … the polar opposite of a commodity or asset class where everything’s the same and moves together.

Real estate’s quirkiness befuddles Wall Street investors … but thrills Main Street investors.

A case in point are apartments …

On the one hand, lots of brand new inventory is coming on the market … and it’s putting pressure on landlords to offer profit reducing concessions.

On the other hand, more affordable existing stock is attracting lots of interest… from both tenants and investors.

So “housing” isn’t hot or cold.  And neither are “apartments”.  Real estate defies that kind of simplistic description.

Of course, it takes financial education to recognize the difference between momentum and value.

It also takes time, effort, and relationships to actually find the markets, team and properties to invest in.

For most people, that’s way too much trouble.  They’d rather sit in their crib with their trading app … or turn their financial future over to a paper asset advisor.

That’s all peachy until rates rise, recession hits, and paper prices plunge.

History … and Doug Duncan … says the inevitable bear market is getting closer.

Of course, as we’ve previously commented … when paper investors get nervous, one of their favorite places to seek safety with return is real estate.

So for active and aspiring syndicators … it really doesn’t get any better than right now.

Think about it …

MILLIONS of baby-boomers are retiring.  They need to invest for INCOME.

And they’re sitting on stock market equity, home equity, and retirement accounts …

… holding many TRILLIONS of wealth needing to (literally) find a home withreliable income and inflation protection.

Their paper asset providers will try to meet the need, but their toolbox isn’t properly stocked.  They can’t do private real estate.

But as boomers struggle at squeezing spendable money out of sideways or stagnant stock markets, they’ll look towards dividends and interest.  Cash flow.

The challenge with dividend stocks is … in a volatile market, investors face capital loss on share prices.  Worse, dividends can be cancelled.

Compare this to rental real estate, which produces far MORE reliable income than dividends with LESS price volatility.  And no one is cancelling the rent.

So dividend stock investors would LOVE income property … IF it just wasn’t so darned hard to find, buy, and manage.

What about bonds and bank accounts for income?  (Try not to laugh out loud)

Remember, a deposit is a LIABILITY to a bank.  When you deposit money in the bank, the bank needs to create an offsetting ASSET … a loan.

But the Fed has stuffed banks full of reserves … and there aren’t enough good borrowers to lend to.

Banks don’t need to offer higher interest to attract deposits.  So they don’t.

As for bonds …

Yes, it’s true bond yields are edging up, which means bond holders earn a little more income … but at a what price?

Rising bond yields also mean falling bond values.  So bond buyers are understandably very nervous about capital loss on their bonds.

WORSE …, bonds carry the added risk of default or “counter-party risk.”

A bond default is TOTAL loss. Yikes.

Real estate to the rescue …

The relative safety and performance of income property or income producing mortgages secured by real estate is extremely attractive right now.

The biggest problem for passive paper investors is real estate is hard to buy, messy to manage, and takes more financial education than just knowing how to click around an online trading app.

And THAT is the BIG opportunity for skilled real estate investors to go bigger faster with syndication.

Whether you decide to explore the opportunities in syndication or not … it’s important to stay curious, alert and proactive.

Most real estate investors we know are preparing for the next recession … because that’s when true financial genius pays the biggest rewards.

Until next time … good investing!


More From The Real Estate Guys™…

The Real Estate Guys™ radio show and podcast provides real estate investing news, education, training, and resources to help real estate investors succeed.

The margin is calling …

Shhh … do you hear it?  It’s the margin calling …

“Margin” is a term we hear all the time but can be a little confusing … because it means different things depending on the context.

But margin comes up often in financial conversations because it’s an important concept … and worth taking a look at.

In stock trading, margin is debt secured by the stocks you’re buying.  It’s like the way real estate investors use mortgages to acquire property.

Typical margin leverage with stocks is fifty percent.  So you put in half and borrow the rest.  If the stock goes up, you get to keep ALL the gain … just like real estate.

BUT … if the stock goes DOWN … you get a “margin call” … which means you need to bring in cash to restore the loan-to-value ratio.  No fun.

We’re sure glad that doesn’t happen in real estate!

The term “margin” has another important meaning.  It’s the “edge” or “fringe” … things that are farthest from the center of the target.

So when you think about your personal budget, you have things at the core … food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc.

Out at the far edges … the margin … are highly discretionary, non-essential expenditures.  These are things you can easily live without, but you enjoy when you’re flush.

These are the first things to get cut when you’re squeezed.

Households, corporations, even governments all have “core” expenses and activities … and “marginal” expenses and activities.

Again, when prosperity recedes … things at the margin fall off the target.

Our point in all this is you can learn a lot about the direction of the economy simply by watching what happens at the margin.

Make sense?

That’s why this headline caught our attention …

Rising Home Prices Push Borrowers Deeper Into Debt

– Wall Street Journal, April 10, 2018

“ … higher mortgage rates make homeownership out of reach for many,

pressuring lenders to ease credit standards.”

“ … rising debt levels are a symptom of a market in which home prices are rising sharply in relation to incomes, driven in part by ahistoric lack of supply that is forcing prices higher.”

Hmmm … some of that doesn’t make sense to us.  But before we go there, consider this headline …

Home builder confidence slides for fourth straight month

– MarketWatch, April 16, 2018

“The 69 reading is still quite strong. In the go-go days of the housing bubble, between 2004 and 2005, sentiment averaged 68. Still, the fact that confidence is declining so steadily is notable. When NAHB’s index started to fall in late 2005, it was one of the signals that foreshadowed the coming housing bust.”

“ … builders are keeping the pace of construction slow and steady. And they’re worried about their costs.

And then there’s this one …

US home building rose slightly in March, led by apartments

– Associated Press via ABC News, April 17, 2018

“… driven by a big 16 percent gain in apartment buildings. Single-family home construction slipped 3.7 percent.”

“There is a severe shortage of existing homes, which has pushed up

prices in cities around the country … That’s lifting demand for new homes.”

Again, a few things here that don’t make sense to us.  And we could probably write a book just on the excerpts from these three news articles.

But let’s see if we can unpack all this briefly …

First, rising mortgage rates and prices are causing people at the margin of prospective home-ownership to remain tenants. Not great for them, but not bad for landlords.

Usually when prices rise based on DEMAND, builders ramp UP production to profit by selling into the increased demand.

So it seems to us home-builder confidence should be growing.  But it’s not.

That makes us think the number of people who can afford to buy isn’t growing either … it’s shrinking.

That’s because when prices rise faster than incomes, the ability to borrow eventually peaks.  Falling interest rates can delay the problem by getting more mortgage for the same payment.

But now that rates are rising, it seems people at the margin are getting pushed off the back of the affordability bus.

That may also explain why apartment building is growing, but single-family home building is declining.

It may also explain why Freddie Mac is lowering lending standards.

They can’t create jobs or increase incomes, but they can make it easier to borrow in spite of rising rates … and they are.

Freddie’s making it easier for first-time home buyers to get in and push up the market from the bottom.  It’s like the air inlet in an inflatable jump house.

The concern is when lower lending standards act as the air pump trying to compensate for higher interest rates and insufficient income … how long can the debt inflation go before it tapers off … or worse?

Don’t get us wrong.  We LOVE passive equity.  It’s fun to buy a property and just watch the equity grow.

But the market giveth and the market taketh away … unless you’re smart enough to get your equity off the table with cheap long-term debt while both are still available.

As John F. Kennedy said, “The best time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining.”

The sun is shining on real estate right now.  Enjoy it. But be sure you’re preparing your portfolio for stormy weather.

It’s probably smart to have some cash on hand … to be prepared for credit markets to tighten unexpectedly … and to lock in long-term rates where you can.

It’s also wise to pay close attention to cash-flow and avoid dependence on market factors to increase rents or values.

Make sure your deals pencil TODAY … based primarily on things you can reasonably control.

Sure, you might have to walk on some marginal deals … even though they’d be “winners” as long as the tide is high and the sun is shining.

But if the tide goes out and the storm comes, then marginal boats sink.  And if they’re tethered to your best boats, they ALL sink.

Now if you just can’t resist taking a chance on a marginal deal … consider structuring it so it can’t take down the rest of your portfolio if things don’t go as planned.

Until next time … good investing!


More From The Real Estate Guys™…

The Real Estate Guys™ radio show and podcast provides real estate investing news, education, training, and resources to help real estate investors succeed.

8/14/11: August and the Economy Part 2 – Perspectives from Two Men Who Would Be President

So it’s not every day you get to sit down with a bona fide presidential candidate face to face and ask whatever you want.  In our case, we got to do it TWICE in one day!  Very fun.

Now whatever you political bent, the issue isn’t what YOU think SHOULD happen.  What we’re interested in is what the people who will be shaping the debate, if not actually running the show in 2013, are thinking.

Our two guests happen to be Republican candidates, so if you’re on the other side of the fence, just hold your nose and listen anyway.  The more info you have, the better you’ll be able to invest.  Again, you don’t have to agree, you just need to understand the possibilities.  And if you know a Democratic candidate who wants to be on the show, let us know!  All viewpoints are welcome. 🙂

Behind the illustrious silver microphones in our spacious, upscale mobile studio (including folding chairs and table):

  • Your presidential host, Robert Helms
  • Your vice-presidential co-host, Russell Gray
  • Special Guest, Director of Economic Research for the Reason Foundation, Anthony Randazzo
  • Special Guest, Two Term Governor of New Mexico and current Presidential Candidate, Gary Johnson
  • Special Guest, Businessman and Presidential Candidate, Herman Cain

When you’re an elected official, you have a bazillion thinks to think about.  And you need a lot of help thinking.  It’s kind of like being a busy real estate investor.  You need to have a team of people who stay on top of changes in landlord law, taxes, mortgage guidelines, credit scoring, asset protection and estate planning – just to name a few!

So we kick off this show talking to Anthony Randazzo, a big brain whose job it is to study, think and advise on economic matters.  One of the things Anthony studies are GSEs (Government Sponsored Enterprises, like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac).

If you’ve been paying attention, you know that Fannie and Freddie play a major role in U.S. housing (and the bond markets), were very much at the center of the mortgage meltdown, and have lots of people in Washington who’d like to see them go away. Kind of like how Ron Paul wants the Fed to go away.  It may never happen, but if it did it would change a lot things we take for granted as real estate investors.  So, it’s important to pay attention to what the big brains and the politicians (not that the two are mutually exclusive :-)) have to say.

Then we talked to Gary Johnson and Herman Cain.  We won’t paraphrase those conversations here, but you can be sure we asked about jobs and real estate.  And of course, we asked what they thought needed to happen to create more jobs. And unlike many shows, we let them talk.  We found it very interesting and we think you will too!

Listen Now!
Don’t miss a show – subscribe to the free podcast!
Want More? Sign up for the free newsletter!

The Real Estate Guys™ radio show and podcast provides real estate investing news, education, training and resources to help real estate investors succeed.

Real Estate Field Trip to Dallas Texas!

Why has Dallas become one of our favorite US real estate markets?

  1. Texas is ranked the #1 business friendly state in the US. Last time we looked, tenants have an easier time paying the rent when they have a job.  And landlords have an easier time paying the mortgage when tenants pay the rent.  Jobs are good.
  2. Dallas is the nation’s 5th largest media market. Hey, we are radio guys.
  3. Dallas is in the top 10 big US cities where it makes more financial sense to rent rather than own.  That means tenants stay tenants longer.  Less turnover means less expenses.  Less expenses means better cash flow.  Cash flow is good.
  4. Dallas real estate values have held up very well throughout the mortgage meltdown and the resulting unprecedented drop in real estate values across the US.  After the last two years of “Drop Zone”, a Merry-Go-Round sounds exciting enough.
  5. Dallas is only 2-1/2 hours from Belize. Does that count?
  6. The Real Estate Guys™ TV show is taped in Dallas (Addison actually, but it’s close enough).
  7. Most rental residential real estate prices are well within the FHA / Fannie / Freddie conforming guidelines. That means it’s easier to get loans.  It’s also easier for resale buyers to get loans.  Life is easier when you can get loans.
  8. Our friend, Ken McElroy, says Dallas is one of his favorite markets for the next 5-10 years.  And we think he’s well qualified to have an opinion.
  9. Infrastructure! Centrally located in the US, a huge airport, a great freeway system, on the path from Mexico to the North and Northeast, a big labor force and good higher education.  Plus they have an amazing $1.2 billion football stadium.  That’s infrastructure, isn’t it?
  10. Big and diverse economy. Dallas is home to lots of huge companies.  But for every huge company, there are lots of little ones that support them.

We could go on, but you get the idea.  But why take our word for it?  Come to Dallas and check it out for yourself! Reading blogs and looking at stats on the internet is interesting in “student mode”.  To get to “investor mode” (where you actually buy, own and manage real estate), you need to visit the market.  How long does it take to learn a new market?  A lot longer if you go it alone!

Invest a weekend with us in Dallas and we’ll help you compress time frames. We’ll help you get the lay of the land (literally!), explore various sub-markets, meet local experts and service providers; plus we’ll introduce you to some of our key contacts.  And no one is going to ask (or pressure) you to buy anything including the next “boot camp” or any specific property.  That’s not the way we roll.  But if you find something or someone that interests you, you can follow up when you’re ready.  Sound fair?

For more information, about the next field trip to Dallas, click here.

Part 1: Report from the National Association of Realtors Conference

This is Russ. I just got back from 3 days in beautiful San Diego where I attended the NAR Annual Conference.  Robert drew the short stick and had to go to Belize to handle some business. Poor guy.

In case you don’t know, the National Association of Realtors is the world’s largest trade association, boasting well over a million members. Pretty good for an industry that’s been at the epicenter of the “world financial crisis”.

I noticed the AP reported on FHA Commissioner David Stevens’ speech at NAR.  They said that Stevens told the Realtors “that concerns the agency is headed for the same financial trouble that snared Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the subprime sector are unwarranted.”

Really?

I didn’t hear the speech because I was more interested in what people on the front lines were thinking and feeling about the market.  Besides, we’d already commented on our observations about FHA in two previous blog posts: Are We Going to Lose our Fannie? and Hey FHA! Your Fannie is Showing. You can find those in the Clues in the News category.

Why should you care about FHA? As quoted in the AP article, Stevens said it best, “Without FHA there would be no (housing) market, and this economy’s recovery would be significantly slower.”

The surest sign there’s trouble is when a bureaucrat comes out and tells your there isn’t  (“Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!” ).  Especially when all evidence says there is.  It’s even worse, when the “no problem” evidence provided is (again, from the AP article), “the agency has $31 billion in capital – $3.5 billion more than it had a year ago.”  But (and it’s a big one), how does that compare to the number of loans insured?  The AP article says that FHA has insured nearly a quarter of ALL new home loans made this year.

Consider these recent FHA related reports:

11/10/09 MiamiHerald.com – “FHA moves to boost condo market – The FHA recently announced more lenient, albeit temporary, underwriting guidelines for condo projects”

11/12/09 DSNews.com (reports to the mortgage default servicing industry) – “The FHA told Congress and reporters Thursday that its cash reserve fund had deteriorated to $3.6 billion – the lowest it’s been in the agency’s 75 year history.”

11/13/09 Wall Street Journal – “The FHA’s Bailout Warning – Whoops, there it is. – Critics of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac were waved off as cranks and assured that the companies would not need a taxpayer bailout right up until the moment that they did.”

11/14/09 AP – “FHA Boss: FHA is not the new subprime” (this is the article written at the NAR conference that I opened up talking about). Hmmmm……I’m having déjà vue all over again…again.

Not to be redundant (okay, maybe a little redundant), but Supply and Demand only work when there is capacity to pay.  If 100 people are starving and there’s only 1 Big Mac for sale, one would think that the price would get bid up, right?  But that assumes (dangerous word) that those people have the capacity to pay. If they don’t, the price won’t rise.

The lesson?  Stevens is right (for now) that FHA money is a BIG part of housing.  If it goes away or is tightened, then there will likely be a dip in prices as less people can compete for available properties.  Does that mean stay away?  Not necessarily.

Eventually, private money (and there’s lots of it!) will make its way back into mortgages. Why? Because it’s profitable and real estate is real and the demand for it is forever. But until the sands stop shifting, private money will stay away. It’s no fun to play a game when the rules keep changing. As long as private lenders think they will have to compete against government (taxpayer) subsidized non-profit lenders, and/or that legislators will impede or negate their rights to recourse under the contract (i.e., stop a foreclosure or force a modification), then private money is going to stay away.

And who can blame them? But, (oops, my opinion is showing), even though all this government tinkering is designed to lessen the pain (ironically caused by government tinkering), it will also prolong it.  But I guess private money is coming to the rescue one way or the other, since taxes take private money and funnel it into housing through the government via bailouts.  Not my first choice, but that’s the way its working right now.

For joe schmo investors like us, bread and butter properties in highly populated markets with good transportation, education and economic infrastructure still make sense – as long as they cash flow and you’ve got reserves to allow you to own for 10-20 years.  Because when private money does come back and is added to all the new money we’ve added through stimulus, it’s very conceivable that prices will go up.  But if you have positive cash flow, amortization (pay down of today’s cheap loans over time), and tax breaks, you will still look good in 20 years.  And who doesn’t want to look good in 20 years?

Subscribe to the Free Podcast

Want More?  Sign Up for The Real Estate Guys Free Newsletter!

Hey, FHA! Your Fannie is Showing

Today,  The New York Times ran a story headlined Concerns Are Growing About FHA’s Stability.  Hmmm…that’s interesting.  Especially since a major chunk of the loans funding the fledgling housing recovery is coming from FHA.

Caution: This is a long post.  BUT, if you stick with it, it’s not just food for thought.  There are some practical tips, so power on!

Back when sub-prime collapsed, we were hanging out with a lot of the top dogs in the mortgage business and the mantra was “FHA is the new sub-prime!”  Wow. Be careful what you wish for.

So the mortgage industry re-tooled.  It took some time, but eventually the industry got good at FHA and went out and sold it silly.  Only 3% down!  Cheap rates!  Go! Go! Go!  And there’s NOTHING wrong with that.  It’s their job.  Just like it was when the private sector made cheap and easy money available.  Wonder if the evil mortgage brokers will get blamed if FHA goes down?  But we digress….

What? Me Worry?

The NY Times article says that FHA Commissioner David H. Stevens “assured” lawmakers that FHA would NOT need a bailout and was “taking steps” to manage its risks.

Two things.  First, let’s take a trip down memory lane.  For old times’ sake, we cracked open The Real Estate Archives and found a Wall Street Journal article dated 6/7/08 in which they reported that Freddie Mac’s then CEO Richard Syron said Freddie’s financial results for 2008 will be better than last year’s.  This was part of a conference call to investors where he assured stockholders, “We are quite confident that the positive changes will offset the negative.”  What fire?

A month later, a 7/8/08  CNBC.com article quoted James Lockhart, the Director of OFHEO (not a cookie – Office of Fair Housing Enterprise Oversight – you know, the folks that watch your Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac).   CNBC interviewed Lockhart and he said, “Both of these companies [Fannie and Freddie] are adequately capitalized.”

Just in case you didn’t believe Mr. Lockhart, MarketWatch reported on 7/10/08 (2 days later for those keeping track) that then Treasury Secretary Mr. Henry Paulson “moved swiftly…to defend Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from critics who have called them insolvent” while testilying to the House Finance Committee.

Sorry, we know this is a blog post, not an encyclopedia, but there’s so much good stuff here.

On 7/22/09 (yes, that would be 12 days later), the Associated Press ran a headline “Congressional Analysts Peg Cost of Propping Up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as high as $25 Billion”.  That’s a lot of money, but as we’ll soon find out, if it was ONLY $25 billion, it would be cause to party (not that we need much of an excuse). 😉

In an interesting aside, the same AP article said Republican Senator Jim Bunning (KY) criticized Republican administration official Henry Paulson (yep, the same Henry Paulson) for “trying to ‘ram down’ his proposal to shore up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which Bunning said ‘smacks of socialism'”.  We tossed this side note in just in case you thought the Obama Administration were the only ones being called Socialists.

Anyway, back to Fannie and Freddie….

On July 27, 2009 (we were in Belize that day…it was fun), CNN Money reported “Efforts to use the troubled mortgage finance firms to fix housing market problems are likely to push the taxpayer bill for Fannie & Freddie above $100 billion.”  That’s slightly more than the originally projected $25 billion, in case you were getting dizzy.

The same CNN Money article went on to say that Fannie has actually received $34.2 billion and Freddie $51.7 billion.  Also, considerably more than $25 billion, but who’s counting?

Okay, so that was a long trip down memory lane.  But the points are:

a) when the head guys say “don’t worry”, worry – or at least take a peak behind the curtain;

b) the politicians will pay almost ANY price to save housing. Why? Because voters live in houses. This pressure, like it or not, helps protect real estate values;

c) history provides perspectives you don’t get if you only live in the current headlines.  That’s why The Real Estate Guys keep archives.

That concludes “thing #1”. Wait!  Don’t quit yet. Thing #2 will be much shorter!

Thing #2:  When the head FHA guys says, “We’re taking steps to manage risks”, it could mean tighter money: things like stiffer guidelines, lower limits – you know, the things that slow down a recovery.

For example, the FHA’s very popular Home Equity Conversion Mortgage (HECM) – the only insured reverse mortgage – has been widely reported as getting a “haircut”.   That means lower loan limits.  We’ll talk more about that on another day, but it makes you wonder what else FHA might do to “manage” its risks.  We’ll be watching….

So, what’s the takeway from today’s post?

Track what happens with FHA.   Like an over extended teenage shopper, who runs up one credit card and then moves onto the next, our policymakers have run up the tab on Fannie, Freddie, and now possibly FHA.  When all the cards are maxed, they call Mom and Dad.  In this metaphor, that’s you – the American taxpayer.  But you don’t have any money either, so they’ll get it by taking out new credit cards (in your name) from the Chinese or whoever has money, and then pledge the fruits of your future labors (and those of children and grandchildren) to make the payments.

We’re not saying Uncle Sam and his minions shouldn’t help housing, nor are we saying they should.  But it’s safe to say they will.  And when they do, HOW they do it will affect the values of YOUR properties, the interest rates and availability of YOUR loans, the jobs and salaries available to YOUR tenants, the size of YOUR taxes, and the value of YOUR dollar.

In all of this change, are many problems and many opportunities.  But don’t worry!  Work. Study. Learn. Watch. And when you see the opportunity, take action while others hesitate.

And keep listening to The Real Estate Guys – we’ll help keep you thinking!